Gov. Steve Bullock on Dem debates, talking to Obama, his alligator boots

Montana Gov. Steve Bullock spoke to POLITICO Tuesday as part of a series of interviews with Democrats seeking to challenge President Donald Trump in 2020.

Here are key excerpts from the hour-long conversation:

On getting into the race

"I got into this about seven weeks ago. I think I was Taylor Swift’s No. 22. Couldn’t have gotten in earlier. Legislature was still meeting.

…I think that, even in a significant field, I bring some things. I’m the only one in the field to run in a Trump state. He took Montana by 20 points in 2016, I won by four. About 25 to 30 percent of my voters voted for Donald Trump. I want to believe there’s still a premium on getting things done along the way. And even with a, you know, majority Republican legislature, we’ve been able to get progressive things done, be it from health care for 100,000 Montanans to one of the most aggressive laws kicking dark money out of our elections, which I think is sort of at the root of so many of the challenges we have."

On who could win Montana

"I sure hope I could…Donald Trump came to Montana more times in the midterm, and he was there four times. Jon Tester won. Now, you can’t really take the seven-fingered farmer compared to the rest of this field. But I hope by the end of this we have nominated somebody that can win a place like Montana…I think a Joe Biden could. I would hope more. It’s still early on that."

On why governors are struggling in the 2020 race

"You know, I think that we have done more and more of sort of the — I’m trying to think the best way to say this — I mean, the sort of popularization, the almost Hollywood-ization, of these races, right? They’re both nationalized. I spent — and I’m even National Governors Association chair right now — I’ve spent most of my career avoiding cable TV. Like, how does that actually get anything done? You know. So, it’s, I think, in part, why you don’t see the governors up as high as some of these. It’s just that a lot of the narrative now is driven by name recognition. And it’s driven by cable news. And those are the folks that we’re seeing more often than others. But I think that, at the end of the day, that the experience that you bring to this as an executive really is fundamentally different than what the senators, most of the things that they can say. ‘Look, I co-sponsored a bill that led to a press release.’ In so many of the areas that they talk about, I’ve actually experienced."

On missing the first debate

"I recognize, you know, it’s like, on the one hand, we’re so far into this. On the other hand, we’re over 200 days from any voter expressing their preference. And you even saw for the first debate things moving up and down and people having their moments. I think there’s a lot of time to have moments."

On campaigning in Iowa

"One of the first people to endorse Barack Obama outside of Illinois was Attorney General Tom Miller, who has been there for 40 years. Jan Bauer, the Story County chair, who’s sort of a legend there, is one where Elizabeth Warren said, ‘Nobody knows more about Iowa politics than Jan Bauer.’ She endorsed. I think I’m building what I need in Iowa that will help.

Maybe all the rules are gone. Maybe every single rule is gone. But if Iowa and the early states still remain the great sorting hat to winnow a big field down, I think I have some great connections there."

On expanding Medicaid

"The first time I got it through was 2015. Like, this was the heart of the anti-Obamacare feeling, at least in Montana. I often use the example of this town called Choteau, Montana, its population is 1,700. It’s on the Rocky Mountain front. Everybody in town knew why I was going to be there because Americans for Prosperity literally mailed every household a picture of me and Obama saying, ‘Bullock’s coming to destroy your healthcare system’. And the first person that got up and spoke in this community —and I didn’t come and say, ‘Here’s what you need for your town’ — first person that spoke was the hospital administrator, who said 43 percent of people who have walked through this hospital’s doors don’t have health insurance.

Couple people got up afterwards, called me a communist or something for pushing Barack Obama’s program. Probably the fifth person was the chair of the county commission. Not even from Choteau, he was a rancher from Bynum. It’s population 50, sort of a suburb of Choteau. But you know, he got up and said, ‘I was born in this hospital. This hospital saved my life two years ago. If we lose this hospital, this town’s gone.’

So not by me going to this town saying, ‘I’m from the government here to help you, this is what you need,’ but by showing up and listening, that’s what gave the Republican legislators courage to defy the Koch brothers, defy party leadership, vote for it when every vote mattered. And as a result, we went from 20 percent uninsured to 7 percent today. We haven’t lost one rural hospital. States that didn’t expand Medicaid, six times greater rural hospital closure."

On working with Republicans

"One of the stunning things to me was during that first debate when the question came up with, like, what if Mitch McConnell is still majority leader. Now what do you do? And everyone was like, ‘Well, I don’t know, what do you do? You know, I don’t know, you can’t do anything.’

…And, you know, I’m not so naive to say Montana is exactly like Washington, D.C. I know that you think of Montana, small. It’s got a bigger population than states like Delaware or Vermont. But…how I’ve gotten things done in Montana is I tried to build relationships with Republican legislators, as well as my Democrats, but I don’t rely on those legislators and those relationships alone. I go out into the communities and try to pull the politics out of it. But I think, like, part of the, I think, the deal that got it reauthorized was to add some work requirements for some folks that are part of the Medicaid expansion. That’s very much a policy hallmark of the Trump administration."

On holding a fundraiser with a lobbyist while campaigning against dark money

"Having a fundraiser that’s somebody I’ve known for 30 years? Look, I square it in that no PACs, no corporate dollars, and every single dollar that I’ll have is going to be disclosed. I mean, I think that in some respects, certainly, if this is a money race, you begin at a disadvantage — everybody can be pure if they transfer over $8 to $10 billion from their Senate accounts directly…A) it’s individuals, it’s not corporations. And B) it’s fully disclosed, and there won’t be any outside donors."

On the top three issues voters talk about

"Healthcare is significant. Top three, you know, in large meet-and-greets, certainly hear about climate…it’s much more pocketbook issues, from what’s going on in the economy job-wise, especially in Iowa, trade, what’s happening to prices. Education’s a significant concern."

On Medicare for All

"I think that there’s a lot of energy and aspiration around health care. I think that’s good. I think that, I hope that the whole field agrees that, everyone, there should be access and affordability for anyone to get health care. But we approach it in different ways. I mean, I am different from the field. But I think you can get there without disrupting 165 million people that have employer-sponsored health insurance, where at times it’s too costly, or they’re dinged for any number of things, but they’re generally pleased with that. I just think the level of disruption, even if you could get Medicare for All through Congress, isn’t the best way to go."

On the death penalty

"I have significant concerns about the economic disparities, the racial disparities in the application, the potential for it to be misapplied. But I’m unwilling to completely take it off the table for a small, small subset of crimes.

…You know, there’s a subset of I guess, 30 or 40 different federal crimes that you could apply to, which I think is too big…You know, if I was president, not unlike when I was attorney general, and the AG is going to review each and every case and be infrequent, or at all."

On talking to President Obama

"You know, I had, like, National Governors Association time so, last February. I had a great conversation…(joking) He said, ‘Bullock, you are going to be the next president of the United States.’ You heard it here. No. I know. You know, I had a great conversation with him…It’s not like, you know, you’re going to someone to get their thoughts and advice and counsel. There’s a degree of that conversation that probably shouldn’t be reported out. Or it probably wouldn’t have been as candid.

…And I don’t know if, until you asked, I’ve even told anybody that I spoke to President Obama…From my perspective, there are a whole bunch of people I can learn from when I was both considering this thing and now, once I’m doing it, and he was certainly one."

On whether Trump is racist

"I think he certainly uses racist language. You know, you look at this week, you could say, like, he walks like a duck, tweets like a duck, it’s probably a duck. This isn’t the only example of him using language that is racist."

On what Trump’s election says about the U.S.

"Look, I think people voted for him for different reasons. And they may be willing to excuse a whole bunch of this behavior, thinking that, ‘Here’s the guy who will drain the swamp.’ Well, it’s swampier today than it was when he came in. ‘Here’s the guy who would bring my jobs back.’ Well, those jobs and those benefits and aren’t going to them.

I mean, I think that there’s often in the end — you guys would have the numbers — maybe 35 percent of folks who say, ‘No matter what, I’m going to be with him.’ But I don’t think that we can cast everybody that either supported him in the past, or is trying to say, how is Washington finally working for me? And they will be part of who decides who the next president is."

On Sen. Steve Daines backing Trump over his tweets

"No, I don’t think that what Steve Daines said is appropriate at all. Nor do I think anybody that’s supporting or suggesting or trying to recreate what this president has said about these four members of Congress is appropriate at all."

On challengers to Daines

"I think there’s still a lot of time, there’s not even all the candidates are in. But I’m going to do everything I can to make sure that who we nominate can beat him."

On the departure of his lieutenant governor

"I would respond that, in the end of the day, that she did decide to go. She resigned, took a job with the commissioner of higher education, and she has many talents, in many ways. Just was not a good fit."

On "soak the rich" tax plans

"Look, the system’s been gamed for a while. Right? I mean, if you look at whoever cleans this place, they pay more taxes than 60 Fortune 500 companies because the Trump tax cuts are a trillion-dollar tax. Stock buybacks certainly don’t go to most of the folks that I hang out with. So, I think we need more balance in our tax system.

Q: Would you raise the corporate tax rate?

A: "I would. Probably 28 (percent). I’d look at a few points for the higher brackets in the room, reversing the Trump tax cuts there. The difference between passive and ordinary income I would address…Like, a wealth tax, taxing on when it’s already been accrued, won’t be part of my platform."

On marijuana

"I think it should be a state-by-state decision that the federal government gets out of it. That’s both for medical and recreation. And we have a pretty darn good medical marijuana program in the state."

On his monogrammed cowboy-style boots

A: "They’re just custom boots."

Q: "No, come on. It sounds like there’s a story."

A: "I’m happy to answer anything else but the boots."

Q: "Did you get them from a lobbyist?"

A: "Well, they’re alligator boots. And I hunted an alligator…Yeah, so let’s not write that."

Q: "Are you going to wear them at the debate?"

A: "Probably not now, thank you. I’m going to wear wingtips at this point."